| OK, WHY ROCK? WHY DOES A GIRL WANT TO BE A ROCK & ROLL STAR? |
LYNN: Why? I don't know. I never was interested in it at all. I
listened to jazz, first of all. Then, when I was about 19,
a friend of mine took me to the Trip to see the Temptations.
And this guy came over to the table and said hello. I said
hello and who are you. He said: 'I'm a Byrd'. And I said
you're a what? See, I had never heard of any of the groups.
I later found out he was Gene Clark; really a nice guy. We
became friends after that. But I guess he couldn't believe
that somebody didn't know who he was or what he was doing.
I got into his writing, then tried writing myself and tried
to find somebody to do it and I eventually found Jefferson
from our group. But I mainly got into it through writing...
I started late. And I listened to a lot of blues records
and things from Billie Holiday and Dinah Washington.
LYDIA: Well, I've been singing ever since I was about 4. Listening
to country and western music. Then the first time I sang in
front of an audience was about seventh grade ... and it just
went on from there. I met Larry Field, the guitar player in
our group, about three years ago. He had a group going then.
Then I sang a couple of times for them and it all just came
together. I always dug Aretha Franklin, James Brown and
people like that.
NANSI: I guess it's like them. I've always been singing. Sweetwater
was a big fat accident... it just happened through some
jamming. I never really listened to anyone in particular...
I was never hung up with anyone.
|
|
HOW MUCH OF AN INFLUENCE HAS BEEN THE SUCCESSES OF JOPLIN AND SLICK ON YOUR MAKING IT ON THE SCENE? DO YOU HOLD THEM MUCH IN ESTEEM? |
LYDIA: No, man... it's a bummer. The first time I ever saw Joplin
was about three years ago and I was already singing then. The
first time I saw her it was really exciting and all and it made
me want to keep singing, but...
NANSI: I really hate being compared to either one...
LYDIA: Right!
NANSI: ... but that's not their fault, really.
LYNN: Generally people find it impossible to think of anyone else, but
there are other chick singers.
NANSI: There are other ways to sing, too.
LYDIA: You just sing how you feel. If somebody comes up to you and says,
'You sound like so-and-so', it's because that person has already
done her thing and people have heard them. That's the way I feel
right now. We're starting to do our thing and people are starting
to compare us... to Janis Joplin or Grace Slick. They're really
the only people they've heard. It really bugs me sometimes, but...
|
|
DO YOU THINK YOU'LL ALWAYS CARRY THIS WEIGHT OF BEING COMPARED TO THEM ... EVALUATED AGAINST THEIR SUCCESSES BECAUSE THEY'VE GOTTEN THE MOST EXPOSURE? |
LYNN: And whoever else comes along. It's a matter of how long you're
there and what you want to make of it. If you want all kinds of
publicity, that depends on how you push yourself and how good you
are at that. But I think the field is open... for anyone else.
It's just a matter of who gets there first.
|
|
THEN DOES IT ALL COME DOWN TO A MATTER OF PACKAGING ... BY THE RECORD COMPANIES AND THE PUBLICISTS? HOW MUCH A PART DOES THAT PLAY? |
LYNN: Quite a bit. A person can be buried very easily.
|
| DON'T THOSE HYPES THAT COME OUT TURN YOU OFF? |
LYNN: A super hype, yes!
NANSI: A hype with no talent is a complete drag.
LYNN: And that happens quite often. It makes people leery of it and
it gets harder for a chic to get somebody behind her. But even
if somebody's great, it can still do harm if somebody writes
something about them that is so fantastic that, no matter what,
you're gonna be let down when you hear them. I think a hype
should be tasteful... to leave room for the person to form
their own opinions.
NANSI: There's really just so much you can believe or swallow.
|
|
LYDIA, COLD BLOOD IS A RELATIVELY NEW GROUP. WHAT KIND OF WRITTEN FEEDBACK HAVE YOU ENCOUNTERED? WHAT KIND OF REVIEWS DO YOU GET? |
LYDIA: They've been pretty good, really. People have been pretty nice
to us. But we've got nine people. Sure, there'll be times
when somebody will write something bad, but it'll be true.
Sometimes they've seen you when you've really done bad.
|
|
DO YOU FEEL STEREOTYPED AT ALL... WITH YOUR BIG GROUP AND ALL, PEOPLE SAYING 'THEY'RE TRYING TO DO A BLOOD, SWEAT AND TEARS AND ALL? |
LYDIA: Yea, people say that. People say we sound like Blood, Sweat
and Tears. We've got four horns. Well, big deal! A lot of
groups have four horns. Maybe there's a lot of groups who
haven't been heard from yet who have four horns. Horns have
been in for a long time, but now people who have never seen
them are seeing groups like Blood, Sweat and Tears and
digging big band. It's really nice.
LYNN: I think that stereotyping is inevitable at first, but then
it's up to you to channel it. And if your record company
won't work with you, then it's very hard to do anything. A
lot of times a publicity item or a picture can get out that
will do a group no good, but mostly the performers can
control that mostly.
|
|
HAVE YOU BEEN HAPPY WITH THE PROMOTION OR LACK OF IT YOU'VE GOTTEN FROM EPIC? |
LYNN: Well...
(Linda Ronstadt walks in)
LINDA: Hi, sorry I'm late, man. Wow, I'm really sorry I'm late,
but I didn't even get home last night and I didn't wake
up till about 2:00... then I said, Oh, shit!
|
|
WE'VE JUST BEEN GOING OVER BACKGROUNDS AND THINGS... BUT NOW WE CAN GET DOWN TO IT. |
LINDA: Oh, good. I'm dying to know what you guys have to go
through working with a bunch of men. See. I don't know...
But it seems to me that chick singers either want to be one
of the boys, because they really want to be included and I
see that a lot. But when they want to do that, they feel
that they're not. because, chicks, no matter what they say
about the quality of womanhood these days, it's not so.
We're still sort of relegated over there ... I always feel,
when I'm in a crowd of a bunch of rock and roll guys, that
they would like to put me in the position of being a groupie
or something like that ... which really pisses me off. But
chicks who get down and boogie and just want to be one of
the boys, you know ... Often times they get into competing
and when they do that, the guys really feel threatened, like
it's a challenge, and they really act uptight and horrible.
LYNN: I think it's how you do it. I think you're competing
anyway... and
LYDIA: Oh, no, man. I don't think so at all.
LINDA: I think you should get away from competing with anything,
including yourself.
LYNN: But you're uptight against that word "competing". I don't
think it has to be a bad word or something you're instantly
against. It depends on what your definition of it is. It
can mean working together, too. It can be a good thing.
It can help another person to see something that somebody
else is doing... and want to do more. But it doesn't have
to be a spite thing. It can be a constructive thing and I
think it's the same way with your relationship...
LINDA: I always call it "trying harder". I don't like to call it
competing. Cause you gotta try ... got to give it your
best effort. There's so many people who fall into that bag,
they feel like ... If you get up on stage and say that: I'm
not really trying as hard as I can ... I really don't have
the best support that I can have, as long as you think that,
then your best licks, if they're not good enough, you have
an excuse. But you can never do that. Whatever you do has
to be your best, man.
LYDIA: Yeah ... right.
LYNN: I don't care if the support is good or not. But I think
your own performance is up to yourself.
LINDA: You've sure got to stand behind it, boy. Lots of times I
think outside influences have a lot to do with it, you know.
But nobody knows, really. Especially in records. The
public doesn't know if it was badly produced or whether the
guitar player was out of tune or like that. But they do
know how the overall thing sounds and...
LYNN: They get the feel of it.
LINDA: Right and they don't know that when you were in the studio
that day you didn't give a fuck or like that. That's the
worst part about it. But everytime you do it, you've got
to say 'Well, that's the best I could do it" or else I
would have done better.
LYNN: I don't think any of us would be doing it if that wasn't
the way we all felt.
LINDA: Yeah... that's true... I think.
LYDIA: I feel that whenever we play, I always feel we can do
better, you know. But sometimes...
LYNN: Yes, always afterwards, but while you're doing it you have
to... Even before if you don't feel like you will. Once I
get up there, I just feel that I have to do everything
I can do.
LYDIA: Right before we go on, I really and truly feel we're going
to do it. But afterwards, sometimes, I feel like we really
screwed up.
LINDA: I get the same feeling. Sometimes when you just don't
connect up with the audience or whatever reason it is, you
have to say: 'Well, that happens sometimes". Otherwise,
it just tears your heart out... to feel bad.
LYNN: Sometimes people are just amazing. Audiences, sometimes,
in the same club on Friday and Saturday night... One night
can be fantastic and you know that your performance hasn't
changed and what you're doing is still the same. But then
the next night, they'll be cold as ice.
LYNN: Especially the ones who sit right up front. They're just
sitting there smoking or drooling over an drink and giving
me that look: just daring me to get depressed... shooting
me down with their looks.
LYDIA: Entertain me or else!
LYNN: There are people who go places just to tear things apart.
Like the movies. A lot of people go to the movies just to
criticize them. But I don't know; even if it's bad, I
payed three bucks, so I want to enjoy myself.
LINDA: The thing is, if you're not having a good time, they can't.
But also, if they're not having a good time, you really
feel like an idiot, you know? Like a dope. Like we went
to New York and... See, a lot of my things depend on the
audience to boogie and really have a good time. See, like
I have a fiddle player and I feel the fiddle is the Devil's
own instrument and...
NANSI: The cello is like that, too.
LINDA: ... because it can sing like an angel and play like the
Devil, too. And New York audiences are supposedly so cool
and super-sophisticated and all and they're really not.
Most of the club audiences are tourists: like they came
in from Long Island... weekend hippies and all. They
think, 'is it going to be hip enough for us to like?'.
But sometimes they get into it in spite of themselves...
hollering and screaming and all. But mostly they just
sit there. If they would have, for the whole week, just
sat there or, for the whole week, just yelled and
hollered, it would have been groovey. But after I was
done with that week, I was going to go back to Tucson
and open up a laundromat. I just couldn't stand the
inconsistency... it just twisted my head right off.
|
|
NANSI, SWEETWATER'S PLAYED NEW YORK A BIT. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF NEW YORK AUDIENCES? |
NANSI: They're the rudest audiences in the world! I always get
the feeling at the Fillmore (and that's the only place,
too) that they're out there and you're up here... there's
not that friendly thing.
LINDA: They want you to prove to them.
NANSI: And they don't want to hear you talk, especially if they
don't know you. They just want to hear you play... period.
Then, at the Scene, they just wanted to talk and they
didn't care if you played or not.
LINDA: That's really a hangout.
LYDIA: I've never been to New York, but we're going in a few weeks.
LINDA: It's great, man... the learning experience.
LYDIA: That's cool... I could dig that... the experience.
LINDA: They'll either make you try or make you give up... one or
the other. You always try harder in New York... always.
But that thing of making you prove it. They just sit there
and say ... 'Prove it'. But, in a way, they're the most
honest audiences in the world. And I kind of appreciate
them for that. And like I say, they always make me try my
best. And then I always find out what my best effort is
and then I find out exactly what my limitations are and
can go back and work on it. Expand the horizon. People
put down New York all the time, but I just dig it for some
reason.
LYDIA: I think I'll like it.
LYNN: Los Angeles is getting just as dirty and it isn't half as
interesting.
LINDA: Oh, no... the buildings aren't as pretty and...
LYDIA: I love San Francisco!
LINDA: Yeah... but L.A.'s really a half-assed city. You can't
even get around unless you have a car. And that's a
bummer... I hate to drive. And I live in Topanga; that's
an hour's drive from here. But in New York you can get
around easy and there's so many things. It's like a
social super-market; there's such a cross-section of
cultures.
LYNN: You can go three blocks and you're into a completely
different thing. And the antique shops... wow!
LINDA: Right! You can really get into that whole scene heavy.
|
| WHAT ABOUT THE LOS ANGELES AUDIENCES... HOW DO THEY STACK UP? |
LINDA: I think they're a lot easier to please, but I'm not that
pleased with myself here.
LYDIA: I think it matters where you play. I played at the
Whisky and...
LINDA: It's just like New York... for tourists.
LYDIA: Right. People go there to be seen and they don't give a
shit what's going on on the stage. You know... you're up
there playing hard... doing your thing and trying your
hardest... but people just don't appreciate you there.
We played Thee Experience and that's pretty warm. It's
sort of like in San Francisco and Berkeley with The New
Orleans House or the Matrix. Everything is really relaxed.
You could drink, dance or just catch the music. Thee
Experience was just a relaxed scene and that's what I dig.
LINDA: You know, the Whisky is partly a place for people to hang
out, although it's not as much now as it used to be. But
also so much of the audience is comprised of people from
Iowa who come to see what freaks are like.
LYDIA: Iowa? I've never been there, either.
LINDA: You know... tourists. And sailors... there's always lots
of sailors there. And they just want to come down and see
the fags and freaks.
LYNN: Sitting there with their dark glasses and all. And the
drinks aren't very good... they water them down.
NANSI: But at least there isn't all age groups there. I really
have to say... I hate teenybopper audiences. They really
scare me.
LINDA: Wow... me, too.
LYNN: I did a thing once on "Ninth Street West" (a former West
Coast Dance Show) when I was acting, doing an ad for
something. And I had to stand on one of those little,
tiny round stages. And those kids surrounded me and gave
me those looks and I felt they'd stone me if I made a
wrong move.
LINDA: They will, man. First of all, here's what's wrong with
the girl singers in America; that's why we're all doomed to
go to Alaska or China or someplace... to make it there.
The record buying audience is composed of 12-year old girls
and they don't like girl singers, man.
LYNN: It's a love-hate thing. They'll either be jealous or
envious of the position you're in.
LINDA: They'd rather listen to Tim Buckley or someone they can
fall for and...
LYNN: No, I don't think so. I think the curiosity and the thing
about them wanting to do it themselves basically, is a good
sign... not whether they like you or not.
LINDA: But it's much harder for girl singers to make it in this
country than it is in England. England has a big thing for
girl singers. But those teenyhopper audiences, especially.
They're at that real paranoid age and they want to feel like
they know everything and they don't want anything to... they
really are looking to put things down a lot. And in a way,
they're so fresh and honest that you can't really go up
there and give them a line of jive.
LYNN: It depends on the area, too. The kids out here are so fast...
LINDA: And they're so blase!
LYNN: I have five brothers and sisters. Two of the boys are 13
and 14 and... my whole family turns on... my parents and
everybody. It's ridiculous. . .
NANSI: What do you mean... "turns on"?
LYNN: And they konw all the phrases... catch phrases. And they
can criticize things more objectively ... they really know
more about what they're talking about.
LINDA: But I still miss that freshness. That's why I'm kinda glad
I didn't grow up here. They really don't have that
wide-eyed innocence.
LYNN: It's really a pretty small area... Los Angeles. But it's so
different from the rest of the country.
LINDA: But this area is so far ahead of the rest of the country,
including New York. New York is just a little bit slower
to change things. California people really rush around like
mad... it's really the epitome of American culture. Americans,
I think, are really doomed to pop culture. I think they
created it because it's such a plastic thing, it's so
flexible. I think it's because they have such a limited
attention span, which is the reason there's such a small
audience for the classical forms or for jazz or modal music.
And then you notice that Americans really can't dance
ballet... although they're really good at hoe-downs. Have
you seen American female ballet dancers, man. They look
like a rhinoceros in a tutu. Really terrible.
LYNN: I don't really agree with that.
LINDA: You don't? Well, I just don't think they have the discipline
for that. But, on the other hand, the pop forms thrive and
are good.
LYNN: I think that's being publicized more, but I think the audience
for other things is just as wide and just as great, but
they've been there longer and they aren't getting the sudden
attention that rock culture is.
LINDA: But let me get back to ballet again. Like I've never seen
an American dancer who could dance like the Russian
companies. They start when they're six years old, for
Gods sake.
LYNN: But the state finances that. It's like that all over
Europe and Canada, but not here. The State helps all the
art forms, even the young pop things.
LINDA: I think we ought to get rock subsidized by the government.
|
|
|
LET'S GET BACK TO THE IDEA OF TRAVELING WITH GROUPS. WHAT KINDS OF PROBLEMS AND CRISIS COME UP WITH CHICK SINGERS AND THE REST OF THEIR GROUPS? |
LYDIA: Nothing, really. We haven't done a national tour yet, but on
our West Coast tours, it's fine.
LINDA: What do you guys get ... I really want to know.
(silence)
LINDA: OK... I'll start it! First of all, you guys are all in bands,
aren't you? You aren't like a single with a backup band. OK,
well, that makes it easier to begin with. Although with me,
it was weird because... well, with the Stone Poneys, it was
just weird. What happened first was our manager came up to us
at The Troubadour during a Hoot Night and said: 'Well, I can
get your chick singer recorded, but I don't know about the rest
of the group'. And that was the end of it, man. The beginning
of the end. Which, really, didn't bother me that much cause
that group was really more of a learning experience than
anything else. I really wasn't into singing that kind of
music. But anyway... it's really hard for a single girl to get
a band of backing musicians, because there's all that ego
problem of being labeled a sideman for a girl singer, you know.
And I found that I'd get problems with that directly in
proportion to how well they played. Well, I went on the road
for four months with that band once and... Well, I was a bad
singer at the time, but they were really inadequate. Not only
that, but I was singing one kind of music and they were playing
really something else. Like they were inadequate for what I
was doing. As individual musicians they were alright but...
no one in the band played the same kind of music. If all of
them left to form their own bands, probably not one of them
would have picked any of the other ones to join them. When I
picked the band, I just picked a guitar player... You... a
bass player, you, drummer and like that. I had to do it
because I had this big tour booked and I needed the bread and
the experience and the chance to stick my face in front of the
people. And the people in front of my face. But if I had an
idea of what was going to be out there... oh, shit! But I'll
tell you, man, the shows were terrible, the musicians were bad.
And what I'd do every night was to just get so wasted that I
wasn't even aware of my surroundings. I would just say...
'Emotion... out! and words and bullshit and insipid backing...
it doesn't matter'. And it was a bummer and a total draining
of my energy.
But that ego problem. I found that the musicians wanted to
blame me for their bad licks, before they wanted to blame
themselves. After that, I went back on the road with a slightly
better band, but it was still wrong and I still felt that they
wanted to compete with me. Like lottsa times when we got done
with a song, the guitar player would hurry to the microphone and
say 'Thank You' before I could even get my mouth open. Or I
wanted to change a song in the set and he'd decide it wasn't
good for the show and he'd argue with me. And it really got
serious... horrible. And I'd find that again, they were always
trying to put me in the position of being boss; in other words,
they felt their masculinity was threatened being sidemen to a
girl singer, therefore subservient to me. And if I was the boss
lady... ugh! I'd put on my boots and get my whip and all that
crap. So finally I said "No, thanks, I don't need to play that
bullshit game. Because all it is, is a masochistic thing that
they're pulling down on their own heads. So all I could do was
just withdraw, but you can't withdraw with musicians you're
trying to work and play with. You just can't! I'd just have
to get more quiet and more quiet, so that I'd never have anything
to say that they could bust me for. And then, finally, I got
musicians who knew what I was doing musically and I liked what
they were doing and we had mutual respect for each other; those
problems then pretty much ended. They still exist, but every-
body was honest about them and could cope with them and come to
terms with it.
But I went through so many changes about my sexual identity
and about how good a singer I was and how nice a person I was...
just because I had those things thrown at me. And boy, those
things really hurt! Because how you can relate to people is
just about the most basic thing there is and when that's
threatened, boy.... it gets rough. And it goes slowly when
you're in Enid, Oklahoma and you're with four kind of hostile
guys and you've gotta hang out with those guys and watch the
tube and get stoned and... because there isn't anything else
to do when you go into those college towns. And then... Oh,
shit... When you play those college towns, the fraternity boys
come up to you or the student body president and say: "Hey,
baby, you want to come back to our fraternity house?
LYDIA: I'll make you a star.
LINDA: Right! And then they try to entice me by saying they'll
play their new Doors album for me or get me a cup of Scotch
or show me their snazzy new GTO. It's so funny.
|
|
WHAT ABOUT TELEVISION SHOWS. WHAT'S IT LIKE BEING A ROCK AND ROLL STAR AMONG A SETTING OF PEOPLE TWICE YOUR AGE? WHAT KINDS OF THINGS COME UP? |
LINDA: Well, it's like on the Campbell show. Everybody over there thinks
they're really getting a peep show if a chick don't wear a bra.
They think that's really something bad... that if you don't wear a
bra, anybody can fuck you... you know? But I decided to really go
out of my way to be cooperative... because we were expecting
trouble. And when people expect trouble, you're pretty likely to
do it... to screw-up and all.
|
| SO DID YOU WEAR A BRA? |
LINDA: No! The censor... it's really funny. The censor on that show ...
... he was going to make me wear a bra, which I wouldn't
have done, of course. But we said, "Oh come on man, you're really
being a little silly" and he just stormed out of there in a huff. And
like Johnny Cash has a song about a chick that's a hooker and there's
a line about 'walk down the ahll into the red light' in it; they made
him cut that line out. And Glen Campbell sang a song about a gal named
Sue and he changed it to a boy named Sue and they made him cut that out.
It's ridiculous... really absurd. However, there was a line about Dean
Martin in drag that wasn't cut out.
|
|
NANSI, SWEETWATER'S PLAYED SOME OF THE NETWORK SHOWS. ARE YOU REGARDED AS FREAKS... TO DO YOUR THING REAL QUICK AND GET OFF? |
NANSI: Right. There's so many restrictions and so many things to think
about. You've got to think about where's that little red light
and you've got to keep smiling and you've got to put up with not
being able to hear yourself sing. And you worry about the rest
of the group, too. The Hollywood Palace was an incredible
experience. It was very square. There were 28 Union guys,
standing on stage, getting $7 an hour for doing nothing... staring.
Everybody was nervous and they really weren't interested in what
we wanted to do.
LYNN: They slap so many of those things together... zip, zip ... it
sounds terrible on television.
NANSI: But last night we did Playboy After Dark and...
LINDA: Wow, isn't that a far-out show?
NANSI: ... and it was a lot of fun. Sure, there were a lot of things
going down that were pretty square, but it's a funny trip and you
can catch the vibes of a relaxed atmosphere.
LINDA: They really do make it like a party and I find that so refreshing.
LYDIA: Do they really drink on there?
NANSI: Do they drink...? Wow... gallons of champagne and...
LINDA: Everybody gets wasted, too, right before they go on. Also, they
kind of treat sex as kind of a peep show.
LYNN: Their centerfolds are so weird. They're naked and they're lying
there in some seductive pose and the face is like: "Hi! I'm the
girl next door and I'm a virgin."
LYDIA: Right! Right!
LINDA: Besides, don't you think it's sort of weird to see a chic, all
naked, with her eyelashes and makeup all perfect?
NANSI: It's sick, really, It, like, promotes homosexuality. Like if a
young guy really wanted that and really expected that, forget it!
It's not going to happen.
LINDA: I expect them to be like dolls. If you looked at their crotch,
it would just be smooth there. (laughing).
NANSI: Is that tape recorder on?
|
| YES... PLEASE CONTINUE... |
LINDA: Do you find it easy to sit around and rap with abunch of chicks...
chick singers? Last night I was thinking about it and I thought:
"Wow, I wouldn't miss this for the world, man." I don't get a
chance to sit around and talk to chicks a lot, but I found myself
saying: What should I wear?
LYNN: Back on television for a minute... what about the flies? There
are always. Have you been watching the TV shows lately. Like on
Laugh-in, Goldie Hawn was out doing this routine and this fly
buzzed out and sat right on her cheek.
LYDIA: And they probably had to pay him... he was probably a Union Fly.
NANSI: What I was thinking about last night was... Being a chick singer
is really, in a sense, a pretty groovy thing. Because you don't
have to get too involved in most of the games that, unfortunately,
men have to play. The masculinity thing and all. They don't
really talk to each other too much or they talk too much and they
blow it. But you don't have to do that. You can always lay back
and play that game; people expect you to. But us... we can always
run somewhere and just be a chick. But I was thinking: how would
it be to be if you were in an all-girl band? Would you really be
able to be honest and to relate. I don't know. Like I know I've
wanted to be honest with some of the people in Sweetwater... I've
wanted to say, 'Now look, you' and played little games and...
LYNN: I always object to having to be in a more or less subservient
position. Like an idea has to be made so that they think it's
their idea, by the time that it happens.
LINDA: Do you guys use... do you take advantage of when you're dealing
with men, that you're a chic and use you womanly wiles? (laughing)
I always do. It's so mean, but...
LYNN: But you can get into trouble a lot of times.
LYDIA: How?
LYNN: Well, like the guy says, 'Sure, yeah, I'd love to do this for you.
Let's have lunch and discuss it.' And you can get a nice review
and a nice this and a nice that. But eventually you have to come
to terms with the guy when he puts his hand on your leg.
LINDA: Well, I always try to stay just far enough away where he can't
quite reach it. But I've always felt insecure around girls, anyway.
LYNN: As a woman, I've never been jealous. I've never been jealous in a
relationship...
NANSI: You don't look like someone who'd have to be jealous... ever?
LINDA: Right... right, because you're really open and that's nice. But
when I'm feeling very insecure as a person, I'll often times just
relax with the fact that I can flirt with men. I don't always do
it, but just having the satisfaction that I could...
LYNN: Well, he's going to get that feeling, from inside of him.
LINDA: Oh, I'm sure and he'll catch that fear and realize that I'm
insecure. But I used to feel that way a lot about chicks.You
can't flirt with a chick, man, you have to just talk straight on.
NANSI: But the thing is, like, a chick knows. She does the same thing.
So there you are.
LINDA: Right, I know. It just never pays.
LYNN: If you like anybody, you like them. And they can tell right off.
First impressions, though, aren't really that great. I mean, I
used to meet people I thought I liked, but I would always be wrong.
And really get ruined for it a lot of the times.
LINDA: I hate, especially, being disappointed. Like you meet some guy
and you think, "Wow, there's a real man. Real honest". Then he
turns out to be more full of shit than you are, right? Then it
gets so boring on the road that you want to get pleasure any way
you can get it. Like I don't get layed when I go on the road,
because I don't know anybody anywhere and I don't like go to bed
with people that I don't know very well. I mean, like guys. they
can pickup chick and they get laid a lot and they can get any
diversion they want. Whatever they do, right? But when a group
gets into a town, it's about 5 o'clock and you set up. Then when
you're done with a gig, everything's closed up... you can't even
go out and get a pizza. Then you go back in the motel and if
you're lucky...
NANSI: You raid the candy machine.
LINDA: The candy machine, right. Or if you get there in time to eat
dinner... perish the thought... you order anything good.
LYNN: I very rarely eat dinner... I'm just not hungry that much.
|
|
WHAT ABOUT MEALS. HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU HAVE TO EAT? DO YOU GET THREE MEALS? |
LINDA: It really depends on how busy you are. If you're just sitting
around, say at the airport, you go to the coffee shop and splurge.
And I eat pies... But like sometimes I'd like to take that Farina
on the road to eat... that breakfast cereal? But I'd feel so
stupid calling room service and asking for a bowl of milk and
a spoon.
NANSI: It's a whole game... knowing what to order and sometimes like
bringing sandwiches from home...
LINDA: Do you cook a lot?
LYNN: Yes.
NANSI: Me, too.
LINDA: I do too, but I feel what I need most right now is a housekeeper.
Cause I don't get home very much and I feel like... Also, in terms
of having a boy friend, I feel it very hard to relate to somebody
outside of the business. Because they don't understand how much...
first of all, how much freedom I need. And flexibility. And how
much time I have to devote to just hanging out... so that you can
keep your mind open and your ears tuned in to what's going on. And
a guy in the business has to do the same thing. I remember a quote
once, I don't know who said it, but it said: "In a relationship,
only one need be faithful." If you're both in the music business,
you've got to both be faithful to the music business, first. I
can't really hassle coming home and scrubbing the floor and getting
a meal on the table. I used to have a roommate, this chick, and
we were really good friends. And occasionally... well, she was
in charge of a lot of the housework, because she didn't work. We
both shared the rent. She organized everything as far as the house
was concerned and I didn't have to think about it. But now that
I'm living alone, wow... and I can't stand a sloppy house. But
right now it looks like the Black Hole of Calcutta.
|
| BACK ON THE ROAD AGAIN, HOW MUCH SLEEP DO YOU AVERAGE? |
NANSI: You either get a little or a lot.
LYDIA: With even 3 to 5 hours sleep, I feel awake. I don't
need that much.
LINDA: I really covet it. It's almost obscene ... I want sleep so bad
sometimes. Like I feel greedy about it. And I've gotten to where
I can sleep anywhere. I hate the Chicago Airport. You have
to land in Chicago to get anywhere and you always arrive there
about two in the morning, and there's no lounges to lay on or
anything. And some of the people at the airports... they always
start picking on the guys in the band and I always have to try
to defend them. They'll never hit a chic.
LYNN: It's a lot rougher for a guy... in every sense. A girl can look
anyway... pretty much any way she wants to.
LINDA: Well, I always end up grubby looking on planes, because I'm too
lazy to get all dressed up just to get on a plane to go someplace
and just have to do it all over again... to get on stage. When
a chick... what a chick gets is more of a disrespect.
LYNN: But, like in "On the Beach", we've got to be understanding and
forgiving and all...
LINDA: I'm all for being understanding, but... I was outside waiting
for a cab and this guy comes up to me and says, "Hey, chick,
you wanna get laid?" And I'm sure he was drunk and some salesman
from Iowa. He probably really felt like an idiot afterward, but
I just hauled off and slugged him right in the mouth. But I'm
sure the guy really felt like a fish out of the water in New York
and everything and I probably should have known that and been
understanding. But I was just so pissed off and...
LYNN: But how understanding can you get?
LINDA: Well, I wasn't going to take him home with me, but I probably
could have gotten on the other side of the street and not hit
him in the mouth ... which was just the wrong thing to do, but...
NANSI: You mean you really hit him?
LINDA: Yeah, I was so pissed ... but they think, just because you dress
shitty or... Or if you don't wear a bra. In all of the world,
outside of California, if you don't wear a bra it supposedly
means you want to fuck everybody. I don't.
LYNN: I think it depends on what you wear with what you don't wear a
bra with. Sometimes it can look obscene. But I think if you're
pretty and you've got something lovely to show and you show it
in a nice way, then it's OK. It depends on how you carry yourself.
But in a rural area, no matter what you do, I think you're playing
with a gun.
LINDA: Yeah, you really are.
(Had a Coke break)
LINDA: I started out singing a Coke commercial and it ended up being the
best track I've ever had... in terms of being tight. And it was
as well-recorded as I'd ever been. And I went in there feeling
a little weird, trying to get-it-on over a Coke. But I started
singing it and the music really turned me on and they said: 'Yeah,
Yeah, she's really getting into it' But I just sat down and
started to laugh, imagining 40 years from now how I'd tell my
grandchildren how I got-it-on over a bottle of Coke.
LYNN: But some of those advertisements are really obscene ... like "Me
and My Winston"... about it being a "really great thing". They're
so sexually oriented. So sick. That one's like: you don't need
anything else except your own little masturbatory tool.
LINDA: Exactly! Then there's the Virginia Slims commerical, where the
chick says: "This is the girl's cigarette and it's longer than
yours, motherfucker". It's a real castration thing, really. She's
saying: "My prick's longer than yours, asshole". That's what she's
saying and it's wrong, but I don't say it's wrong for even the
commercial to be on the air, because it's a reflection of what's
in the society and it wouldn't be on the air if society didn't feel
that way. So you can't blame TV. But there's this great fear of
sexual inadequacy or impotence in this country. So when a chick
comes on stage and comes on sexy... I've had this problem all my
life that I've fought with. I went to Catholic schools and I was
always very curious about sex as a child. I loved Bridget Bardot
and Marilyn Monroe and I wanted to be like them, becuase I thought
they were groovy. And I was boy crazy... and horse crazy. . I
loved horses. I wanted to be that kind of chick. But the nuns...
they all hated me, more than anyone else in the class. They gave
me horrible grades... in music and stuff like that, because they
couldn't flunk me in reading. Madison Avenue ain't dumb. They
know what people are afraid of, so they know how they can scare
them into spending their money. And you can't blame them, either,
because the public's vulnerability is there and it certainly
demands that type of advertising. But it's so wrong to take
advantage of people like that.
LYNN: I don't know; in a way, the way I feel I sometimes get so paranoid
that I want to dig a hole and hide. I get this feeling like 'Beat
Me- Kick Me... I'm Terrible'. But I know he's going to have other
friends and people interested in him and, in a way, it's nice...
it's a compliment. And it makes me feel, at times, good... I'll
watch it. Because I've never felt like, "Oh, My God! I'm going
to die if he runs off with somebody else." What I feel is "Oh, My
God. Wouldn't it be horrible if he didn't come back!"
LINDA: That's a good attitude to have. Except I never really get into a
really heavy thing with a guy. I get into heavier things with
musicians. Like there's this guitar player who plays in my band
that I just love... he's one of my boy friends, too. But, anyway,
it would be impossible for me to replace him as a guitar player.
Well, it wouldn't be impossible, but it would be really difficult,
cause he's really good. And we really work well together. And
this is what really hurt me, more than any guy has ever hurt me.
When he said he really liked to play music with me more than
anybody he's ever played with. But then he said it would be kind
of an ego trip for him to just be my guitar player for the rest
of his life. Then he said, and these are his exact words, "If you
don't become a superstar within a year, we ought to think about
starting a group together". In the meantime, he signed on with
the Burrito Brothers. If I didn't know that he really liked
playing music with me, I'd probably really be hurt.
|
|
LYNN, YOU HAVE SOMEWHAT OF A SIMILAR SITUATION NOW ... WITH YOU SPLITTING FROM YOUR GROUP AND TEAMING UP WITH SOMEONE YOU LOVE. |
LYNN: Well, the music with my group, the music that I had been writing,
and that they wanted to play, were two different things. I think
they'll do very well, now, with just guys in the group, because
it's got to be a tight situation and it wasn't before. Neil and
I write quite a bit and seem to want the same thing, as far as
performing and working goes. The first time that I sat in with
Neil's group, Merryweather, it was just street talk about me and
my group. I mean, we hadn't even thought of splitting, so when
I saw it in the paper the next day, it was really strange. But
it was the first time on stage that someone had really related to
me. He brought me out of the audience, on stage, and I was really
shaking. But we jammed that night at Thee Experience and it was
wondrous. He actually looked up and related to me. And we found
that we could write together and harmonize very well.
LINDA: Isn't that a joy when that happens. I'm usually really scared to
sit in with people unless I'm really sure that it's going to work
out. Like I could sit in with the Burrito Brothers, because we
play about the same kind of music... country standards and things
like that. But last night... I ran into Arlo Guthrie at the
Troubadour and he said: "You want to go play and sing"? And I
said, "Sure, man" And he said we were going over to the Ash Grove;
Ramblin' Jack Elliot was there. And he got me by the ear, and
Doug Dilliard and Bernie from my band and we all went over. And
I had never even met Jack Elliot. I don't have a guitar to play
or anything and if I don't know the tune, I just have to stand
there and look like an idiot. But Arlo dragged us up there and
we just had one of the best evenings I've ever had in my life. It
just all fell into place. I sang songs that hadn't heard since I
was eight years old. All the harmonies fell into place and every-
body was on each others' side: nobody was trying to upstage
anybody. And then we went over to somebody's house and we just
did it till dawn. And it was great! We had one other night like
that recently, when we just did it till dawn. And it was great!
... We had one other night like that recently, when we got Johnny
Cash and Eric Anderson and Doug Dilliard and all those people and
it was far out. Because all those cats are really into being on
each other's side and they'll draw the best things out of you
cause they're really interested.
|
|
DO ANY OF YOU GET REACTION FROM FRIENDS YOU HAVEN'T SEEN ... SAY SINCE HIGH SCHOOL. OR BEFORE YOU ENTERED SHOW BIZ. ANY REACTIONS ABOUT YOU BEING ROCK SEX GODDESSES? EVEN FROM YOUR PARENTS. |
LINDA: The last person I saw since high school tried to choke me to death.
No, I find it very uncomfortable ... but, the people who were
really my friends in high school are still my friends.
LYDIA: Same with me ... my old friends are with me all the wwy. And my
parents ... they really dig the music scene. They like what I do.
LINDA: Same with me ... my parents are groovey, too. But I find it a
little hard... Like my father always knows. He knows exactly where
I am musically, how I've improved or gotten sidetracked. And he
knows just how to, criticize when I do anything wrong... to be
helpful. But my mother... "Ooooh, my little girl's a star"
Bless her heart. Like I got a good review from the L.A. Times
recently and she wrote a letter to the paper the next day, thanking
them. But most of the kids I knew in school in Tucson... I've sort
of torn away from them. I really was never very happy in school
and now I guess I'm sort of a freak to them ... something really
different, because I'm in the music business. And I feel that men
sometimes feel challenged by me, because I have a career and I'm
independent and all. I feel that they feel that I'm saying
"I don't really need you. I can take care of myself." Or maybe
I'm doing that.
LYNN: A man who isn't insecure, I think his attitude would be 'Alright,
fine'. But a man who's into his own thing would say: "Gee, that's
lovely. I wish you all the luck and if what you're doing is good,
that's great." Some will respect you, some will regard it as a
pleasant joke... that you've done something. But I've found that
most men will take a real interest and try to help you.
|
| TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT FOR A MOMENT ... ARE THERE MALE GROUPIES? |
LINDA: There's a couple of them, but it's more... the groupies thing is
pretty much dominated by the chicks.
LYNN: For a guy, it would make him undesirable,
LINDA: It's such a turn-off for a chick that there's not much incentive
for a guy to become a groupie. It's really a turnoff. It
automatically makes a guy a subservient thing. A chick can be
subservient... I mean, that could be her thing to do in life.
But it's just not socially acceptable for a guy to do that.
|
| WHAT ABOUT ROCK CRITICISM... INTELECTUALIZATION OF ROCK MUSIC? |
LYNN: If its overdone, it's bad. If it's just so that they can hear
their own words, wishing perhaps that they could have been a
writer or a poet or a musician ... But if it's valid and
constructive, I think that's great. But just to criticize to
tear something down for your own ego gratification ... to have
someone say, "Oh, he's a wit"... I really think that's sickening
and is destroying the whole scene.
LINDA: When you try to intellectualize anything, you ... But there's a
lot of intellectual things in music to consider. A lot of the
columnist types that write... like she says, I just feel that
they're trying to get their own opinions in print. Just to do
their own thing.
|
|
OK ... ANY LAST WORDS ON CHIC SINGERS? ANYTHING THAT YOU WANT TO SAY THAT WE HAVEN'T COVERED? |
LYNN: No, I just want some coffee.
LYDIA: I have to go to the bathroom.
LINDA: Me, too.
NANSI: I'll have some of that coffee.
|
Return to Articles Page